From E-Commerce to Local SEO Product Expert

I asked Claudia about her background and how she got started in local SEO.

Claudia used to be really big in e-commerce. She was selling on Amazon before Prime even existed. She ended up selling her business. In the middle she was looking at different businesses and decided she was going to dabble into marketing.

She started shadowing at an agency of a family relative. Then they decided they were going to create ReputationArm, which would be the reputation management portion of his agency.

They started there and now they're building a SaaS platform that helps multi-location businesses, big brands, mainly restaurants, generate reviews so they can rank better.

Through that whole process, she's learned how to optimize Google Business Profiles, what really gets them ranking. She's been dabbling in lots of tests and ranking features, always looking at Google Maps.

She became a Google Product Expert along the way and that really changed things and helped her evolve to be a better SEO. She's been doing this for six years now.

I asked Claudia what becoming a Product Expert was like.

She had an issue with a client that started getting bombarded with negative reviews and she found the forum and posted there. Jason helped connect her to another Product Expert that escalated it.

She kept checking the forums. While she was doing that, she was like, I can answer all these questions. So she started answering the questions.

She noticed that a lot of great names like Joy Hawkins and Ben Fisher were Product Experts. So she thought, let me try this.

"It's actually been so rewarding. You help so many small businesses all over the world and people are so grateful for your help. A lot of times you're in a position to really help this business. You almost feel obligated. You cannot leave them."

It's really satisfying. It's helped her evolve as an SEO. And then you get to do cool things like fly to Dublin for the Google events.

The Two Biggest Problems: Suspensions and Verifications

I asked Claudia what are some of the biggest problems people face. Is there a recurring thing people are always asking in the forum?

Right now it's all about suspensions and verifications.

Verifications is a big one because people are trying multiple times and they're failing. Just guiding them through the process. A lot of times they could be doing all the right things, but for whatever reason, Google systems are not accepting it.

The forum is the only way to help troubleshoot and get through some of these very difficult things. She doesn't think support can even be able to help them through it.

It's escalating, identifying the issue. Their job is to make sure they've done all things possible before escalating.

Even with suspensions, it almost feels like a lot of these people have no choice but to come to the forums to get unsuspended. They file their appeals and they might do it two times and they fail and they have no choice.

"We're supposed to look at everything, make sure everything's accurate. And then if we notice something, help them identify it. And then from there we can do the escalation and then help them get reinstated."

Bulk Verification: The Status You Need

I asked Claudia about the bulk verification process.

It sounds like, okay, I have these 10 listings, let me get them bulk verified. But it really doesn't work like that. "You actually have to be bulk verified. It's a status."

Once you're considered bulk verified, and it's basically by the user account, whatever email account, and then that email has to be associated with all locations. Typically it's done inside of a group.

Once you have that status, every time you go to create a new listing, you should be able to bypass the video verification. You actually might still get an email verification or phone verification option and then you can get through that.

"But it's way easier than doing a video verification."

I asked if there were requirements.

It has to be 10 or more and you can't be a service area business. It has to be location based. There's other requirements. You have to have a landing page for each location.

They do some type of audit on your website and everything has to match up. "If you have 50 locations and you have 49 landing pages, then you don't get bulk verified until you can actually make sure that you actually have 50 landing pages that match the 50 Google Business Profiles."

They match everything up. Sometimes it's easy to get somebody bulk verified and other times it can take months.

The Caesar Salad Test That Changed Everything

I asked Claudia if it matters if you get keywords in reviews.

"This is my theory on it. I think it's very industry relevant."

She did a case study where her client specializes in table side Caesar salads. They had 53 reviews with Caesar salad in it.

She couldn't get them to rank, couldn't outrank these two restaurants that had no mention of Caesar salad. Nor were they even known for their Caesar salad. It was just on the menu.

She thought it was so odd. She just kept digging and digging and digging.

What she came to realize is that her client's menu didn't have Caesar salad. It had Caesar Kitchen.

"There's multiple signals. And as soon as we changed the name to Caesar salad, the rankings went right up. They were number one."

Do keywords matter? Yeah, they matter. But there's also different layers in the ecosystem that have to be in place for Google to trust it.

Restaurants have a lot of layers. Booking systems, ordering systems, menu integrations, menu highlights, photos. "There's just so much more in the Google ecosystem for a restaurant and a bar."

Everything Google does, they always push it to a restaurant category first. It's never going to be to pest control.

She works with a restoration brand. They don't have a lot of layers to incorporate besides maybe having a booking link and adding services.

She does think though, if you don't have the service in the services area and you have it in the review, you might be less likely to rank. You can maybe still rank, "But your chances of ranking higher are better when they match the service."

They're probably also looking at website, landing pages, service pages for service based like pest control.

But personally, she doesn't find that Google's going into her restaurant clients' websites for ranking purposes. "I can get a client to rank on Google all within the Google ecosystem just by managing what I have access to."

Review Replies Don't Matter for Rankings (Yet)

I asked Claudia about review reply keywords.

"It makes no difference."

Well, she doesn't know. In the age of AI, it might change because everything's getting indexed.

"I think with AI, it might matter. We have to look at review replies a little bit differently than how we have in the past."

As far as a ranking factor in Google Maps or local pack on desktop, no, she doesn't think it exists.

But there is a possibility that as the models evolve, if somebody says they have really great vegetarian options, if you were to reply and say, thank you for mentioning our vegetarian options, we do have vegan desserts as well, maybe AI would pick up on the fact that you have vegan desserts.

"I haven't been able to test that. I've tried it, but I haven't been able to surface it."

Typically there's always Yelp or TripAdvisor or she always does halal because it's such a unique keyword. But she's surfacing halal websites that she never even knew existed. Listing all the restaurants that are halal. AI surfacing that.

"But I haven't been able to clearly identify a review reply. But I think over the years as we keep testing, we might find stuff."

Secondary Categories Are Massively Underrated

I asked Claudia about primary versus secondary categories and if secondary categories really matter.

"Yeah, they matter a lot."

She has an Italian restaurant that serves flatbread pizza. They have pictures of pizza on their Google Business Profile. But overall, are they known for pizza? No, they're not. It's a fine dining Italian restaurant for branzino, things like that.

When she didn't have pizza as a secondary category, they did not rank for pizza keywords. They couldn't rank.

"As soon as I added pizza restaurant as a secondary category, they started ranking in three and four positions."

They're never going to rank number one because it's not their primary category. If somebody's really searching pizza, Google knows they're going to surface anyone that has pizza in the business name and pizza as a primary category.

"That's why restaurants especially, a service based company, they offer this one main service. It's easy. But when you're offering, even on this Italian restaurant, I have to add steakhouse because I can't get them to rank for any steak related keywords without adding that category in there."

Categories matter so much. "It literally will trigger search query in time."

For dental offices, a dental office should not just have dentist "Because they're probably missing out on a ton of search queries just by not having their categories in there."

You Can't Outrank Keywords in the Business Name

I asked Claudia if you can rank without the keyword in the business name.

It depends on your competition. She's doing a study right now for halal. She can add a halal restaurant as a category. She can add it as an attribute. She can add it as a menu item and maybe an image with the text.

She's testing these things right now. "I can't outrank the businesses that have halal in their name."

She has to remove that and see how her rankings fluctuate. But at the end of the day, "If the keyword is in the business name, you're just, you're the winner."

But in AI mode, it might be different.

Photos Are the 2025 Game Changer

I asked Claudia what about photos. Do you just need 10 really good photos or should you completely stack it and keep adding more?

"No, you should constantly add photos."

She thinks adding photos is the new 2025 game changer.

When you go through Google Maps, and again, she's going to refer back to restaurants because everything shows up in the restaurant ecosystem a lot easier.

She looked up live music and then Google's AI inside the Google Maps app was recommending jazz night, karaoke, live music. There was a few other categories.

When she was looking to see what are they going to recommend, there is a live music category, but there was another thing they had in there. There's no category for this. What are they going to show me?

"They pulled all of it from photos, the reviews. If somebody mentioned live music in the reviews, or the AI description of the business might say they're known for having jazz music or live music events."

Then there were restaurants ranking that had no mention of live music in the reviews or anything, but they had a photo that kind of gave the conception that there was a karaoke night, like a microphone.

"So I was like, wow, that's powerful. Photos really do matter."

Don't Worry About Geotagging Photos

I asked Claudia about optimizing photos. There's tons of different things you can do. Geotagging, changing the title of the image, adding the keyword on the image.

"Obviously geotagging doesn't work."

She doesn't think the title of the photo matters. She doesn't know. Maybe she could test that. She's never tried testing that.

"But I just think Google's smart enough to know and understand what the image is without us even having to put any overlay text or anything."

Just like Google Lens, you can right click and Google will tell you exactly the description. And sometimes they even give you the location of where that image is.

She doesn't know if really any of that all matters. "Just have really high quality, professionally done photos, because that's what seems to be prioritized within Google Maps."

And she does think photos from customers can help a lot. Even with your rankings, they might even rank better than you adding the photos.

"Just get the photos and make sure that Google can visually see and understand the service that you're trying to provide."

If you're carpet cleaning, show your guys doing carpet cleaning. If you're a plumber, show yourself fixing sinks, different sinks, bathrooms, kitchens, whatever it is.

"I think the more signal you provide to Google through photos, through your optimizations, through the attributes, then if they can clearly identify and match you with that search query, it's gonna help you rank."

The Biggest Suspension Triggers

I asked Claudia what are some of the biggest reasons for profiles getting suspended.

A lot of people come to the forum and they're like, I didn't do anything. I've been open for 12 years. Why am I suspended?

"I think Google is just enhancing their AI models and maybe scanning. Whatever it is that they're doing, just may trigger a business or a whole category to go through."

Let's see if there's a lot of spam in this category and clean it up. Then they just knock a bunch of businesses out.

"In a way, it's not a bad thing. Spam fighting has become less of a thing because a lot of people are getting suspended and they can't verify or they can't get unsuspended. They don't have the right documents."

That's a good thing. But in general, it's just them cleaning up specific categories. Some categories are a lot more sensitive. Locksmiths and garage doors have a lot of spam.

Getting those guys reinstated takes a lot more effort than getting a restaurant or a shopping center unsuspended. Certain categories can get themselves unsuspended through the appeal process, "But a locksmith will almost always get denied and have to come to the forum."

The pattern they'll notice is they'll see a lot of threads coming from locksmiths today. A lot of threads coming from the garage door guys today. "So it's Google did something in that category that did a scan."

Then they're like, okay, I didn't do anything, but there is a violation. There's something that triggered the suspension.

It could be you have no website. Your landing page or your website data doesn't match your Google Business Profile. Your business name, if it's super spammy. Mismatch categories, your business description, showing your address.

Sometimes people don't realize you can't get unsuspended if your service area listed is beyond the two hour distance.

It's just going through all that, fixing it, advising that business owner. Checking their website, making sure everything's in sync. Or maybe Google just can't recognize that business through third party sources.

"So they think there's a high level of spam for that business, but it could just be a small business owner that really never really invested in marketing. It's referrals and they're getting their Google leads and they've been happy for the last 20 years."

Owner Activity Matters for Trust

I asked Claudia if owner activity plays a role.

"I'm sure that does play a role in the trust factor."

Can Google trust that you're managing your profile, that you really do exist? Not replying to reviews, not updating your data, never updating. That could be a signal to Google. Hey, do we trust this business? We can't find them on Yelp. We can't find them on Angie's List.

A lot of small businesses don't even have websites. They might link to a Facebook page.

"And so when you have that in place, you're just going to get suspended. Doesn't mean we're not going to get you unsuspended."

If you could prove to Google that you exist, even though you don't have all these other things in place. But then the chances of you getting suspended again down the line might be greater too because you don't have that foundation that Google can trust you.

Reviews play into that as well. A company with a thousand reviews is much less likely to get suspended than one with 10 reviews because that's votes from your customers.

"You'll never really see a business get suspended that has driving directions, website clicks. Those kinds of signals are really big for Google."

That's why you don't see restaurants getting suspended because there's so much activity, there's so much engagement. But then you have these service based companies where nobody's driving to them and maybe calling. "Where's the other signals?"

Claudia's Message: Try Every New Feature

I asked Claudia for her final message to local business owners and local marketers.

A lot of people always ask her after they get suspended, should I not touch my profile? I'm so scared. Should I just not do anything?

"I think that's wrong. You should be engaged on your Google Business Profile."

Anytime Google enables a feature, she thinks you should try it. Anytime there's another layer where you can clearly tell Google what it is that you do, she thinks you should give it a try.

Do all your optimizations, do all the best practices, "And then just be in it for the long haul."

My Main Takeaway

This conversation with Claudia completely changed how I think about categories and menu optimization. The biggest insight is the Caesar salad test. Her client had 53 reviews mentioning Caesar salad but couldn't rank until they changed the menu item name from Caesar Kitchen to Caesar salad. Keywords matter, but there's multiple signals in the ecosystem that all have to align.

Secondary categories are massively underrated. They literally trigger search queries. An Italian restaurant couldn't rank for pizza keywords until pizza restaurant was added as a secondary category. Then they jumped to positions three and four immediately.

And photos are the 2025 game changer. Google's AI is pulling recommendations from photos, even when there's no category or review mentions. A restaurant ranked for karaoke just because they had a photo with a microphone. Google Lens can identify everything in your photos without any optimization.

But what resonated most was you can't outrank keywords in the business name. No matter how much you optimize categories, attributes, menu items, photos. If the keyword is in the business name, they're the winner. At least until AI mode potentially changes that.

Thanks for reading, and if you found this valuable, make sure to check out the full podcast episode. Claudia drops even more tactical Google Business Profile optimization strategies that I couldn't fit into this recap.

You can find Claudia at ReputationArm.com and on LinkedIn at Claudia Tomina where she's always giving really good tips on her posts and discussing ranking factors. You can subscribe to her newsletter on LinkedIn as well.