Working at an Agency That Did Everything Made Him Want to Specialize

Tim was working at Snap Agency, a marketing company that did everything for everyone. E-commerce, web design, development, all kinds of different content management systems, basically anything a client wanted.

He was rattled and shaken by all the different stuff they were doing. It wasn't fun to be somebody working at a company like that because there were so many things you never felt like you got good at any one thing. You're spread too thin trying to be everything to everyone.

When he went out on his own, he had a different mindset: could they narrow the focus so that the work could be better and more enjoyable? This is the origin of why Hook Agency specializes in home services instead of trying to serve every industry.

I relate to this so much. When you're doing SEO for restaurants, then e-commerce, then lawyers, then plumbers, you never develop deep expertise. You're constantly relearning different industries. When you niche down, you can actually get really good at one thing.

The Overlap Technique: Building a Side Business Before Quitting

Tim didn't just quit his job and hope for the best. He used what he calls an overlap technique, which is basically smart risk management.

He was doing freelance work on the side. Him and his hustle buddy at work would go out on walks and talk about how much freelance business they had. They'd have contests, keeping score of their recurring revenue.

Once his freelance income surpassed his salary, he made the jump. Even though it's super scary, he decided to take the show on the road. He got a tiny basement office with his hustle buddy who was still working at the company, and they split rent.

The first month was scary. But then he realized something important: "When you have 40 hours to dedicate to your thing it's crazy how fast everything's gonna be okay," Tim said. "Like if you were doing this with 20 hours on the side imagine what you could do with 40 extra hours every single week."

It wasn't as scary and crazy as he thought it would be. When you can focus full-time on your business instead of squeezing it in after work and on weekends, growth accelerates dramatically.

Now, eight years later with 34 employees and their families depending on the business, the stakes are completely different. It's more about the ego than survival at this point. Tim positions it in his head as growth equals survival, but technically he could just fire a bunch of people and he'd probably still be fine. He doesn't want to do that though, so there's a huge ego component driving him.

Taking People Out to Lunch Was His First Marketing Strategy

Tim's first marketing strategy was beautifully simple: take people out to lunch.

He was aggressive on marketing from the very beginning. He ranked locally for Minneapolis web design and Minneapolis SEO since he was local at the time. His marketing budget for the first month was taking people out to lunch, asking for referrals, finding people he could refer business to and people who could refer him business.

He did this every single day. He also wasn't afraid to do whatever worked, even if it was hacky. That first year he did everything on social media. He even boosted tweets with fake likes and stuff like that, and he got customers that way.

The key insight? "I got business by like being out there because no one really wants to put their face out there," Tim said. He believes that putting yourself out there in very uncomfortable ways is the easiest way to get business. Shaking hands, networking, being visible.

Most people are too afraid to do this. They'd rather hide behind their computers running Google Ads. Tim went out and met people face to face, which gave him a massive advantage.

Three of His First Five Clients Were Contractors

Tim also ranked locally for Minneapolis SEO and Minneapolis web design, which brought in local businesses. Out of his first five clients, three were contractors: a pavement contractor, a remodeler, and a roofer.

At first, the specialization happened somewhat organically. Then a coach told him to niche. But he was scared, so the first five years of the business was only kind of half niched. It was half home services, half other industries. Then in 2021 they said no more and went all in on home services.

He spent years being half committed to the niche before fully committing. That's brutally honest, and I think a lot of agency owners can relate to that fear of turning away business. What if you niche down and there's not enough demand? What if you lose potential clients?

But the reality is niching makes everything easier. Your marketing gets clearer. Your systems get better. Your team develops deeper expertise. You can charge more because you're specialists, not generalists.

Entrepreneurs Get Paid for Risk, Not Hard Work

Tim had an interesting perspective on what entrepreneurs actually get paid for.

He tries to create systems around everything so other people can do the actual work. Their team does the SEO. He helps here and there when he can. But he focuses on things only he can do: talking to people, partnerships, risking things for the business.

"Like that's like weirdly your job as like chief risk officer like go risk some more today you know that's really why we get paid at the end of the day," Tim said.

Think about it. If Tim stopped working for six months, he'd still get paid pretty well. Why? Because of all that risk he's taken over eight years. He's no longer paid for his hard work or billable time. He's paid for eight years of risk. That's where value is for entrepreneurs.

This reframed how I think about my own business. I'm not just doing SEO work. I'm taking on risk. I'm betting on the future. I'm making decisions that could succeed or fail. That's what entrepreneurs get paid for.

E-Myth Revisited and Traction Changed How He Built the Business

I asked Tim about the importance of coaching and systems. He mentioned two books that have been transformative for Hook Agency: E-Myth Revisited and Traction.

E-Myth teaches you to create a franchise model like McDonald's from the very beginning. Create systems that you could plug and play people into. Even smart people need systems. Without them, everything depends on individual talent and you can't scale.

One practical thing that book taught Tim: create one-page job descriptions for each role you're going to need in your business, then sign them yourself. You are all those things initially. Then you can pass those roles off one by one as you hire.

He still does this today. Right now he's the partnerships manager and the marketing director. He has a marketing specialist but he's still the director. He'd love to pass those two roles off eventually.

Traction, also known as the Entrepreneurial Operating System or EOS, provided a framework for running the business. It's a light framework, not a heavy one that messes up all your time. They implemented it themselves for years before getting a professional implementer two years ago.

One of the biggest early wins from the implementer? He told them to decrease their leadership team from seven people to four. That created massive clarity. Too many cooks in the kitchen slows everything down.

He Hires Junior Employees and Uses Consultants to Train Them Up

Tim shared an interesting approach to building his team that I found really smart.

It's hard to hire senior people, especially in marketing. Senior marketers are expensive and they're picky about where they work. So Hook Agency has had a lot of luck hiring junior people, letting them develop, and using outside consultants to help them get up to speed quicker.

That's how they've built out their team. Tim acknowledged he's working on getting better at hiring senior people, but this strategy has worked really well. It's also a smart use of consulting budget. Instead of paying a senior employee $150K a year, you pay a junior person $60K and spend $20K on consulting to train them.

The junior person is hungry, moldable, and grateful for the opportunity. The consultant brings senior-level expertise without the full-time cost. It's a clever model.

Niching Helps You Systematize Without Losing the Custom Touch

I asked Tim how he balances being systematized with being custom. This is the eternal agency struggle. Clients want custom solutions, but you need systems to scale.

Niching helps you create systems well. Then you have to urge your people to be creative and consultative within those systems. There will probably always be a gap where founders are way better at being consultative than anyone you hire, because you created the business. But you can train people to get close.

Hook Agency has created a menu of five services. It's fairly simple. The key is creating products that are 20 to 30% ready upfront. The content, the ads, the website are all going to be custom, but they're getting everything about 20-30% of the way ready before deployment.

Tim compared it to Papa Murphy's Pizza: "It's kind of ready it's ready to go we bring it and then you bring it home and we can pop it in you know."

They already know 30-40% of what needs to be done because it's the same industry, the same type of clients, the same general problems. Then the custom layer on top is what makes each client special. This is the balance that lets you scale while still delivering custom value.

It's Okay That Surprise and Delight is Systematized

I brought up a potential concern: when you systematize things like sending gifts or following up with clients, does it feel less authentic? Does it lose its meaning when it's just part of a process?

Tim had a great perspective on this. You're in business. This is about growing a business and making money. You want to do it in a way you enjoy and that you like, but it's still business. That's okay.

He gave the example of Chewy sending condolences when someone's dog passes away. There's no immediate money in that. But it's good for their business long-term. And it's systematized. That's okay. The gesture still means something even though it's part of their process.

Businesses can be systematically kind. Businesses can have processes for thoughtfulness. That doesn't make it fake or less valuable. It just means you're intentional about it instead of hoping you remember to do nice things for clients.

Sales Is More Important Than Marketing

This was the most surprising insight from Tim. Here's a guy who runs a marketing agency telling me that sales is more important than marketing.

His point? You can have the best marketing in the world, but if your sales process sucks, you won't close deals. You can generate a thousand leads, but if you can't convert them, it doesn't matter.

Most businesses focus too much on lead generation and not enough on lead conversion. They want more leads, more traffic, more awareness. But the real bottleneck is usually in the sales process.

Are you following up fast enough? Are you following up enough times? Do you have a script that works? Do you handle objections well? Do you sound confident or desperate? All of these things determine whether you actually turn leads into customers.

Tim's seen this with his own clients. He can drive leads all day long. But if the client's sales process is broken, those leads don't convert into revenue. Then the client blames the marketing when really it's a sales problem.

This was a huge mindset shift for me. I've always been focused on driving leads through SEO. But Tim's right. If my clients can't close those leads, the SEO doesn't matter. I need to be just as focused on helping them improve their sales process as I am on driving traffic.

Building Real Referral Systems Takes Discipline

I asked Tim about referral systems because that's something every business wants but few actually build properly.

The key is discipline and consistency. You have to systematically ask every happy customer for referrals. Not just hope they'll refer you. Actually ask.

Tim recommends creating triggers in your CRM. When a project is completed successfully, when a client gives positive feedback, when you hit a milestone, that triggers an automated email or task to ask for referrals.

You can't be passive about this. Most businesses get referrals occasionally because they do good work. But if you're intentional and systematic about it, you can turn referrals into a major source of new business.

The other key? Make it easy. Don't just say "if you know anyone who needs our services, let me know." That's too vague. Instead, say "do you know any other HVAC company owners who might be struggling with marketing like you were?" Be specific. Give them the exact type of person you're looking for.

Even better? Ask for introductions, not just names. "Would you be willing to introduce me to them?" is much more powerful than "can you give me their contact info?" The warm introduction carries your credibility with it.

My Main Takeaway

The biggest thing I learned from Tim is that sales beats marketing. You can drive all the leads in the world, but if your sales process is broken, you won't convert them into customers. Focus just as much on optimizing your sales as you do on your marketing.

The second takeaway is the overlap technique for starting a business. Don't just quit your job and hope for the best. Build your side business until it matches or exceeds your salary, then make the jump. This dramatically reduces risk.

The third thing is that entrepreneurs get paid for risk, not hard work. Once you build systems and hire people to do the work, your job becomes taking strategic risks that could grow the business. That's what you're really getting paid for.

The fourth lesson is that it's okay to systematize kindness and thoughtfulness. Having a process for sending gifts or following up doesn't make it less authentic. It makes it reliable and consistent, which is more valuable than random acts of kindness.

If you want to learn more from Tim, check out Hook Agency or listen to his podcasts: HVAC and Plumbing Hustle, and Hook Better Leads. You can also connect with him on LinkedIn.

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The Real Cost of Trying to Serve Everyone

Let me expand on why specialization matters so much, because this is something I struggled with too.

When you're serving every industry, every client is a unique puzzle. You're constantly starting from zero. What works for a restaurant doesn't work for a lawyer. What works for an e-commerce store doesn't work for a plumber. You're reinventing the wheel every single time.

Your team can't develop deep expertise because they're bouncing between completely different industries. Your systems don't work across clients because everyone needs something different. Your case studies don't resonate because potential clients in HVAC don't care that you helped a dentist.

But when you niche down like Tim did with Hook Agency focusing on home services, everything compounds. Every client you work with makes you better at serving the next client in that niche. Your systems actually work across multiple clients because they face similar challenges. Your case studies are incredibly relevant because you're talking to the same industry.

Tim spent five years half-committed to the niche before going all in. That's honest. Most agency owners are terrified to niche down because they're afraid of turning away potential revenue. But the reality is you make more money as a specialist than as a generalist. You can charge more, deliver better results, and scale more effectively.

Why Taking People to Lunch Still Works in 2025

Tim's lunch strategy from his early days is still relevant today, maybe more than ever. Everyone's hiding behind their computers, sending cold emails, running LinkedIn ads. Meanwhile, there's almost no competition for in-person relationship building.

When you take someone to lunch, you're giving them your undivided attention for an hour. No notifications, no distractions, just conversation. You learn about their business, their challenges, their goals. They learn about you and what you do. That face-to-face connection builds trust faster than any email sequence ever could.

The ROI on lunch meetings is insane when you think about it. You spend $50 on lunch. You have a good conversation. They refer you one client. That client is worth $5,000, $10,000, maybe $50,000 over their lifetime. That's a 100x return on a $50 lunch investment.

But most people won't do it because it's uncomfortable. You have to reach out. You have to suggest meeting up. You have to drive somewhere. You have to make conversation. It's way easier to just send an email or a LinkedIn message and hope something happens.

That's exactly why it works so well. Your competitors are too lazy or too scared to do it. You're not. That gives you a massive advantage.

The Truth About Scaling Past Seven Figures

Tim's perspective on entrepreneurship changed as Hook Agency scaled. In the early days, it was about survival. Can I pay rent? Can I pay myself? Will this business make it?

Now with 34 employees and eight years of momentum, it's different. He's no longer worried about survival. He could fire half the team and still be financially fine. But he doesn't want to do that. His ego is invested. The business is part of his identity.

This is the shift that happens when you scale past seven figures. It stops being about money and starts being about legacy, impact, and ego. You're not trying to survive anymore. You're trying to build something significant.

I'm experiencing this transition myself with Pest Control SEO. The early days were pure survival mode. Can I sign enough clients to pay my bills? Now it's about building the best pest control marketing agency in the country. The motivation shifts from fear to ambition.

Tim positioning it as growth equals survival is smart. It keeps the urgency alive even when you're comfortable. Because the moment you get complacent, your competitors catch up and you start losing.

Why Junior Employees with Consultants Beats Hiring Senior Talent

Tim's hiring strategy is brilliant and underutilized. Most agencies try to hire senior people and struggle. Senior marketers are expensive, picky, and hard to find. They have options. They know their value. They're going to be selective about where they work.

Junior people are the opposite. They're hungry, they're moldable, they're affordable, and they're grateful for the opportunity. Yes, they need training. Yes, they'll make mistakes. But they're also loyal, hard-working, and eager to learn.

The consultant piece is key. You bring in outside experts to train your junior people faster than they'd learn on their own. The consultant might charge $150-200 per hour, but you're only paying them for training time, not 40 hours a week. Maybe it's 5 hours a month for $1,000. That's a bargain compared to hiring a senior person for $150K a year.

Over time, your junior people become senior through experience and training. They understand your systems, your clients, your culture. They're not job-hopping like many senior hires do. You've invested in them, they're loyal, and they've grown with your company.

This is exactly what I'm doing with Pest Control SEO. I hire junior SEO specialists with potential and train them up on pest control specifically. Six months later, they know more about pest control SEO than most "senior" SEOs ever will because they're specialized.

The Menu of Services Model for Scaling

Hook Agency's menu of five services is the key to scaling an agency without losing your mind.

Most agencies try to custom-build everything for every client. The client wants something specific, so you build it from scratch. The next client wants something different, so you build that from scratch. You're constantly reinventing the wheel.

Tim's approach is smarter: create five core service offerings that cover 90% of what your clients need. These are productized services with clear deliverables, clear pricing, and clear processes.

Within each service, you have flexibility for customization. The framework is standardized. The content, creative, and strategy is custom. This is the 20-30% done upfront, 60-70% custom model he mentioned.

For pest control, this might look like: Local SEO Package, Google Ads Package, Website Redesign Package, Content Marketing Package, and Reputation Management Package. Each has a standard scope and process. But the exact keywords, ad creative, website design, and content is customized for each client.

This lets you scale because your team knows the process. They're not figuring out something brand new every time. But it still feels custom to the client because the outputs are tailored to their specific business.