Systems
Al Levi on Why Tommy Mello Was Losing Money at $15 Million | Local Marketing Secrets with Dan Leibrandt
Jun 9, 2025


I just had an incredible conversation with Al Levi, the third generation contractor turned business strategist who wrote the bestselling book, The Seven Power Contractor. He co-founded the rapidly growing ZoomDrain franchise with Ellen Rohr and created the signature operating manuals and staffing systems that thousands of trades businesses rely on every day.
After scaling his family's plumbing and HVAC firm to 70 plus employees and retiring at 48, he's spent the last two decades helping contractors around the world run their companies with less stress and a lot more success.
This conversation completely changed how I think about systems, the three personalities holding entrepreneurs back, and why you can't be a zero in any of the seven powers.
/ / / / / / / /
The Silver Spoon Covered in Fuel Oil and What It Taught About Authenticity
Al was literally born into the business. His friends told him he was born with a silver spoon, and Al said yes, except his was covered with fuel oil. By the time he and his brothers were young, they were sweeping up in the office, cleaning out toilets, or riding at night.
Al said the day he was born was the day they put a wrench in his crib. They drove trucks, did everything as helpers. Al's father strongly believed you should never ask anybody to do anything you yourself haven't done. When Al was young, he didn't like that. But he saw the wisdom pretty quickly because you have no authenticity otherwise.
Al got his engineering degree (which he never practiced), but while going to school he worked six months a year in the business. There was no spring break. When he came back home in his early 20s as the last of the brothers to join, his father said "I owe you an opportunity, not a guarantee. You're going to start here and work your way up. You're not reporting to me. You're reporting to the people that head your department and they have full reign. Good luck."
Al had great mentors at his own company that took him under their wing. He wasn't born a tech. He had to learn from really good, patient people. He also had what amounted to a drill sergeant named Tommy who was tough. But Al never forgot any lessons Tommy taught him because it was humiliating enough to do it once, you never wanted to ask twice.
This idea that anyone is a self-made man? If you're honest with yourself, no you're not. If you read a book and it influenced you, you're not self-made. There's no such thing as a born leader or all self-made entrepreneur.
The Three Personalities That Keep Every Entrepreneur Trapped (Rescuer, Fireman, Guru)
Al shared a story that completely changed my perspective. One of his great mentors, Dan Holland (an industry giant), was in Al's truck. They ran a call, got back in the truck, and this is ancient guys so hang with me - Al's beeper on his waist, his two-way radio, and his big giant cell phone were all ringing at the same time.
Dan looked over at the passenger seat, looked at Al, and said "You think that's normal?" For a second, Al thought "yeah, and I hate it." Then a second later, he thought "look how important I am. I'm indispensable."
That's when Al dug into what he calls the three personalities you have to get hold of or nothing will change.
Al liked being the rescuer. The cavalry coming in. All these guys fail, step aside, I'll show you how it gets done. Whatever position that is.
The other one was the fireman. There's a fire out there, everyone's failed, step aside, I'll get this fire out. Here's the sneaky part: if there were no fires, unconsciously Al was setting them up to create fires. Really sneaky stuff.
The last one was the guru. Al and his brother Richie would go to the highest level training because they did residential, commercial, and industrial. They had shifts with people on call from 7 to 4, 8 to 5, 10 to 7 p.m., 2 to 11 p.m., and in dead of winter 5 p.m. to 2 a.m. Those people were useless when they'd get to big things.
Al and Richie were upset at them. But when they finally stopped being upset, they realized they had the guru system where they never sent them to that training, never gave them aids, never put them through training to get things done. So those people were entitled to call and wake Al or his brother up and ask a question.
When they finally systematized that, 50% of those wake-up calls went away.
Watch out for rescuer, fireman, guru. Al talks about this in his book "The Seven Power Contractor," and it makes a world of difference. If you don't address those three things, you're going to hang on to everything.
I told Al I feel like I can find myself falling into all three sometimes. I want to be the person who rescues. I see this with all kinds of other entrepreneurs too. Al confirmed: it is every entrepreneur. Otherwise we would have never made the entrepreneurial seizure (dumb moment) and gone into business or even stepped into an existing business because dad wanted to retire.
Your company trains you that way because every time there's a mishap, who do they send it off to? Owners and managers to come fix this instead of training them to work on items that should be within their sphere.
Why Operating Manuals Beat SOPs and the $150,000 Investment That Paid Off in Two Years
When I asked Al how he came up with the Seven Power framework and why it's seven powers versus 10 or five, he said it was kind of evolution and an epiphany. What he knew was the operating manuals was really the biggest turning point. He needed who does what and what is the reporting order. That started with the org chart.
You can create what people loosely call SOPs (basically checklists). In the absence of nothing, checklists are always better. But if all you write is SOPs and they're all random, it's like post-it notes all over a wall. There's no structure to it. SOPs are not operating manuals.
Operating manuals is when you have an org chart. Now you have a place of discipline. The question is: which of these boxes is this an activity that goes on 80% of the time? You're creating a playbook so if Al brought you on board, you could be the accounts receivable person, accounts payable person, CSR, dispatcher, service tech, installer. There's a playbook that goes over and over and over which empowers you to handle the 80%.
Al spent $150,000 of his family's money creating the manuals originally. They were a fraction of what's in the program today, but in the absence of nothing, they were great. They paid that off in two years because of the chaos at their company. They were blowing opportunities, dropping the ball all along the line, running callbacks all the time instead of being able to go to new work, and leaving a ton of profit.
They had way more calls because they were good marketers and they couldn't convert them. They would go back to old work before they could get to new work. That was a big problem.
As Al shared with me before the show, he was really great at sales and marketing and his team was really great at blowing it up. That's how he became the operations guy, the staffing guy, the planning guy. He had to systematize all of it.
The Bathtub Analogy That Explains Why Marketing Without Systems Is Pointless
For trades companies just starting out, Al explained there are other owner operators in the same boat. If they're 50, 60, 70, they're reaching the end as an owner operator because their body is talking to them. The work wears you out. They're ripe to be acquired.
What you need is marketing. Marketing is organic marketing and acquisition, not one or the other. Acquisition doesn't mean you need tons of money. These little companies can work for what Al's friend Ellen called "mailbox money" - when the calls convert, I'll send you a check.
Marketing is a written system. You have to have a marketing plan or no matter which marketing vendor you work with, it's absolutely going to be sabotaged. A marketing plan defines where you want to go, what services you want to do today and add later, and describes your target audience.
What Al was told by his marketing guru: say something to someone or you risk saying nothing to everyone.
The reason Al starts with marketing when you're already exhausted: are you charging enough for that work? That's where budgeting comes in. Ellen Roar's books "Where Did the Money Go?" and "How Much Should I Charge?" (read in that order) take financial from sticky, messy accounting and put it in plain English.
There's a difference between tax accounting (keeps you out of jail, ensures compliance) and real world accounting (helps you run your business). Every day, every week, every month, you need to know where you are.
Listen to this carefully. The best way Al came to describe marketing is from his plumbing experiences. Imagine filling a bathtub with the right amount of calls from the right customer at the right time. If the drain is wide open because you can't answer your phones really well (that's the CSR), the goal is not to just fill the tub. It's to overflow the tub.
Once you have more demand than you can do, you get to decide what you charge, what work you do, where you will do it, and what you don't want to do. It also creates the pressure to move out of owner operator to one to three trucks, three to five trucks, and anywhere else you want to go.
How Al Turned Tommy Mello's $15 Million Money-Losing Chaos Into $230 Million Across 19 States
This is arguably Al's top success story or at least the most well-known. In 2017, Al was still doing one-to-one consulting. Tommy was just starting his podcast and Al was one of the first guests. Tommy called just before they were going to go live. Al looked down at his phone and saw his area code.
"Where do you live, Tommy?" "Phoenix." "Where do you live, Al?" "Phoenix." "Great. When we're done, we'll have lunch together."
They had lunch together, talked, and Tommy handed Al his book. "I want you to do me a favor. Read this. Be brutally honest." Al said "don't give me the book if you don't want brutal honesty because I will tell you."
Al met back up with Tommy and said "This is not a book. It's a ransom note. It's just so all over the place. You need an editor." Al gave him the same editor who helped with his book.
Then Tommy said "Great. You're hired." Al said "Hired for what?" Tommy said "I need everything that's in your book and what you've talked about. At my shop we're $15 million in sales and we're losing money every day."
Al's first job in 2017 was to get them to break even, then from break even to start making a lot of money. They started to rock and roll. Tommy came to Al one day and said "We're going to be $100 million." Al had already known Tommy and said "absolutely no doubt that we will, but this time when we build it it's not going to be chaos because you've been relying on people to magically solve the problem versus systems that people learn so they can scale."
Today Tommy's probably $230 million in like 19 states. The real test of systems is when you can expand beyond your main hub shop to other locations. In Al's case, they had a main hub shop and three satellite shops. The way they learned to make it run is you need these kinds of systems that people are trained on, not just go find the magic person who makes it work.
What actually changed in Tommy's business? It was all of the things along the seven powers except one. He was already good at sales and pretty good at marketing, but marketing was just wake up, fall out of bed, next hottest thing. If you throw enough money at it you can get away with it, but you will go broke in the process.
Al did planning, operations, staffing. They didn't do sales because Tommy liked the sales system. They did marketing, and Ellen did the financial and reward program.
The first thing that started with all Al's one-to-one clients was planning power. Planning power is all the projects and habits that every one of your people have in their heads, that you have in your head. Al watched Tommy do it like every other contractor - he's walking down the hallway and goes "hey Danny, would you take care of this?" It was not delegation, it was dumping. Al knows because that's what he used to do.
Think of it as a funnel. The top 35, 50 projects and habits you want to get done in the next three to five years go there to live. Every new idea comes down the funnel with either fixing your biggest problem or challenge or greatest chance to grow and be profitable. It gets to the top 30 (what you will do in one year).
No one can work on 30 things at one time. You take the same strainers (fix biggest problem/challenge, greatest chance growing profitable) and get down to your top five. The top five is your promise to yourself and to your company because you put it out there where everyone can see it on a whiteboard.
On the board: what is it that we're doing (those five things)? Why are we doing that? Where's the status? If they see no activity, your team knows same old thing because what you do every day is "I really need you to work on this." Next day you walk in "I know what I said yesterday, but this is really important." Pretty soon your team learns to stand still because whichever way the wind blows is where you're going next.
Then it was the org charts, the manuals, the training. Then it was how can Tommy stop trying to find willing techs with great skills (there's only so few of them, and they were telling him what they would and wouldn't do and messing up and he wouldn't fire them). Al said "you don't have your own farm team, which is taking willing apprentice with no skills to willing techs with great skills."
They took the manuals, built the right hands-on training center modeled on ones Al created, got them to be better trainers in-house, learning how to train right, training curriculum. That's the flywheel effect of being able to take apprentices to junior techs, junior techs to senior techs. As you grow and hub out, you need field supervisors, but they're not guys you appoint. They qualify, they compete, and they train.
My Main Takeaway
The three personalities that trap every entrepreneur are rescuer (cavalry coming in when guys fail), fireman (putting out fires and unconsciously setting them when there are none), and guru (hoarding knowledge instead of training people). Al's beeper, two-way radio, and cell phone were all ringing simultaneously when his mentor Dan Holland asked "you think that's normal?" Al thought "yeah and I hate it," then "look how important I am, I'm indispensable." That's the trap. Al and his brother Richie would go to highest level training for residential, commercial, and industrial work but never sent their people or gave them aids. Those people were entitled to call and wake them up. When they finally systematized that, 50% of wake-up calls went away. If you don't address rescuer-fireman-guru, you're going to hang on to everything. Your company trains you this way because every mishap gets sent to owners and managers to fix instead of training people to work on items within their sphere.
Tommy Mello was losing money every day at $15 million in sales until Al systematized everything except sales, proving scale without systems is just more gasoline on a fire. In 2017, Tommy said "I need everything in your book, we're $15 million in sales and losing money every day." Al's first job was getting them to break even, then making a lot of money. Tommy said "we're going to be $100 million" and Al said "absolutely, but this time when we build it it's not going to be chaos because you've been relying on people to magically solve problems versus systems that people learn so they can scale." Today Tommy's probably $230 million across 19 states. Al changed planning (Tommy was walking down hallways dumping tasks, not delegating), operations (org charts, manuals, training), staffing (building farm team to take willing apprentices with no skills to willing techs with great skills), marketing (wake up fall out of bed next hottest thing became written system), and financial (Ellen did real world budgeting). The real test of systems is expanding beyond your main hub shop to other locations.
Operating manuals beat SOPs because manuals are playbooks tied to org chart boxes that empower people to handle 80% of activities, while SOPs are just random post-it notes with no structure. Al spent $150,000 of his family's money creating manuals originally (a fraction of what's in the program today), but in absence of nothing they were great. They paid that off in two years because of chaos at their company - blowing opportunities, dropping the ball all along the line, running callbacks instead of new work, leaving tons of profit. They had way more calls because they were good marketers and couldn't convert them. They'd go back to old work before getting to new work. SOPs are basically checklists, and in absence of nothing checklists are always better. But if all you write is SOPs and they're all random, it's like post-it notes all over a wall with no structure. Operating manuals start with org chart, creating place of discipline. For each box, you define activities that go on 80% of time, creating playbook for accounts receivable, accounts payable, CSR, dispatcher, service tech, installer that goes over and over and empowers them to handle the 80%.
The bathtub marketing analogy explains why you need to overflow demand to control pricing and work selection, but the drain stays wide open if you can't answer phones well. Imagine filling a bathtub with right amount of calls from right customer at right time. If the drain is wide open because you can't answer phones really well (that's the CSR), the goal is not to just fill the tub but to overflow it. Once you have more demand than you can do, you get to decide what you charge, what work you do, where you will do it, and what you don't want to do. It also creates pressure to move out of owner operator to one to three trucks, three to five trucks, and anywhere else you want to go. Marketing is a written system requiring a marketing plan or no matter which vendor you work with, it's absolutely going to be sabotaged. Marketing plan defines where you want to go (goals, all objective), services you want to do today and add later, and describes target audience. As Al's marketing guru said: say something to someone or you risk saying nothing to everyone.
The planning power funnel takes 35-50 projects and habits down to top five promises displayed on a whiteboard that holds you accountable and stops the wind-blowing chaos. Al watched Tommy do what every contractor does - walk down hallway and go "hey Danny, would you take care of this." It's not delegation, it's dumping. Think of it as funnel. Top 35-50 projects and habits you want done in next three to five years go there to live. Every new idea comes down funnel with either fixing biggest problem/challenge or greatest chance to grow and be profitable. Gets to top 30 (what you'll do in one year). No one can work on 30 things at once. Take same strainers and get to top five. Top five is your promise to yourself and company because you put it where everyone can see it on whiteboard. On board: what are we doing (those five things)? Why are we doing that? Where's the status? If they see no activity, team knows same old thing because you say "I really need you to work on this" then next day "I know what I said yesterday but this is really important." Team learns to stand still because whichever way wind blows is where you're going next.
You can find Al Levi at 7powercontractor.com (the number 7). There's a lot of information - blogs you can search, videos, all free. The jump start guide is free. If you're interested in products beyond the book, click the product page to see the two main programs: Signature Operating Manual System (where you start) and Signature Staffing System (so you can take willing apprentices with no skills to willing techs with great skills). Al is on social media as Al Levy or Seven Power Contractor, primarily on Facebook, not a lot on Instagram. He's not putting pictures of dogs or kids - it's all about what he's learned along the way. His book "The Seven Power Contractor" is on Amazon in paperback, ebook, and if you like his voice, on Audible. It's designed so a contractor like Al (not a fast reader) could read it in two to four hours, but the goal is reading it over and over and absorbing more each time.
Also read Ellen Roar's books in order: "Where Did the Money Go?" and "How Much Should I charge?" Other great books: "Good to Great" and "Who Moved My Cheese" (about change, which Al keeps above his desk). Al's definitive message: you can grow big, but growing big without being systematic is an invitation to chaos - an uncontrollable fire you keep putting gasoline on each day. When's the best time to grow an oak tree? 10 years ago and today. If you don't plant it today, 10 years from now you're going to wish you had.
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Systems
Al Levi on Why Tommy Mello Was Losing Money at $15 Million | Local Marketing Secrets with Dan Leibrandt
I just had an incredible conversation with Al Levi, the third generation contractor turned business strategist who wrote the bestselling book, The Seven Power Contractor. He co-founded the rapidly growing ZoomDrain franchise with Ellen Rohr and created the signature operating manuals and staffing systems that thousands of trades businesses rely on every day.
After scaling his family's plumbing and HVAC firm to 70 plus employees and retiring at 48, he's spent the last two decades helping contractors around the world run their companies with less stress and a lot more success.
This conversation completely changed how I think about systems, the three personalities holding entrepreneurs back, and why you can't be a zero in any of the seven powers.
/ / / / / / / /
The Silver Spoon Covered in Fuel Oil and What It Taught About Authenticity
Al was literally born into the business. His friends told him he was born with a silver spoon, and Al said yes, except his was covered with fuel oil. By the time he and his brothers were young, they were sweeping up in the office, cleaning out toilets, or riding at night.
Al said the day he was born was the day they put a wrench in his crib. They drove trucks, did everything as helpers. Al's father strongly believed you should never ask anybody to do anything you yourself haven't done. When Al was young, he didn't like that. But he saw the wisdom pretty quickly because you have no authenticity otherwise.
Al got his engineering degree (which he never practiced), but while going to school he worked six months a year in the business. There was no spring break. When he came back home in his early 20s as the last of the brothers to join, his father said "I owe you an opportunity, not a guarantee. You're going to start here and work your way up. You're not reporting to me. You're reporting to the people that head your department and they have full reign. Good luck."
Al had great mentors at his own company that took him under their wing. He wasn't born a tech. He had to learn from really good, patient people. He also had what amounted to a drill sergeant named Tommy who was tough. But Al never forgot any lessons Tommy taught him because it was humiliating enough to do it once, you never wanted to ask twice.
This idea that anyone is a self-made man? If you're honest with yourself, no you're not. If you read a book and it influenced you, you're not self-made. There's no such thing as a born leader or all self-made entrepreneur.
The Three Personalities That Keep Every Entrepreneur Trapped (Rescuer, Fireman, Guru)
Al shared a story that completely changed my perspective. One of his great mentors, Dan Holland (an industry giant), was in Al's truck. They ran a call, got back in the truck, and this is ancient guys so hang with me - Al's beeper on his waist, his two-way radio, and his big giant cell phone were all ringing at the same time.
Dan looked over at the passenger seat, looked at Al, and said "You think that's normal?" For a second, Al thought "yeah, and I hate it." Then a second later, he thought "look how important I am. I'm indispensable."
That's when Al dug into what he calls the three personalities you have to get hold of or nothing will change.
Al liked being the rescuer. The cavalry coming in. All these guys fail, step aside, I'll show you how it gets done. Whatever position that is.
The other one was the fireman. There's a fire out there, everyone's failed, step aside, I'll get this fire out. Here's the sneaky part: if there were no fires, unconsciously Al was setting them up to create fires. Really sneaky stuff.
The last one was the guru. Al and his brother Richie would go to the highest level training because they did residential, commercial, and industrial. They had shifts with people on call from 7 to 4, 8 to 5, 10 to 7 p.m., 2 to 11 p.m., and in dead of winter 5 p.m. to 2 a.m. Those people were useless when they'd get to big things.
Al and Richie were upset at them. But when they finally stopped being upset, they realized they had the guru system where they never sent them to that training, never gave them aids, never put them through training to get things done. So those people were entitled to call and wake Al or his brother up and ask a question.
When they finally systematized that, 50% of those wake-up calls went away.
Watch out for rescuer, fireman, guru. Al talks about this in his book "The Seven Power Contractor," and it makes a world of difference. If you don't address those three things, you're going to hang on to everything.
I told Al I feel like I can find myself falling into all three sometimes. I want to be the person who rescues. I see this with all kinds of other entrepreneurs too. Al confirmed: it is every entrepreneur. Otherwise we would have never made the entrepreneurial seizure (dumb moment) and gone into business or even stepped into an existing business because dad wanted to retire.
Your company trains you that way because every time there's a mishap, who do they send it off to? Owners and managers to come fix this instead of training them to work on items that should be within their sphere.
Why Operating Manuals Beat SOPs and the $150,000 Investment That Paid Off in Two Years
When I asked Al how he came up with the Seven Power framework and why it's seven powers versus 10 or five, he said it was kind of evolution and an epiphany. What he knew was the operating manuals was really the biggest turning point. He needed who does what and what is the reporting order. That started with the org chart.
You can create what people loosely call SOPs (basically checklists). In the absence of nothing, checklists are always better. But if all you write is SOPs and they're all random, it's like post-it notes all over a wall. There's no structure to it. SOPs are not operating manuals.
Operating manuals is when you have an org chart. Now you have a place of discipline. The question is: which of these boxes is this an activity that goes on 80% of the time? You're creating a playbook so if Al brought you on board, you could be the accounts receivable person, accounts payable person, CSR, dispatcher, service tech, installer. There's a playbook that goes over and over and over which empowers you to handle the 80%.
Al spent $150,000 of his family's money creating the manuals originally. They were a fraction of what's in the program today, but in the absence of nothing, they were great. They paid that off in two years because of the chaos at their company. They were blowing opportunities, dropping the ball all along the line, running callbacks all the time instead of being able to go to new work, and leaving a ton of profit.
They had way more calls because they were good marketers and they couldn't convert them. They would go back to old work before they could get to new work. That was a big problem.
As Al shared with me before the show, he was really great at sales and marketing and his team was really great at blowing it up. That's how he became the operations guy, the staffing guy, the planning guy. He had to systematize all of it.
The Bathtub Analogy That Explains Why Marketing Without Systems Is Pointless
For trades companies just starting out, Al explained there are other owner operators in the same boat. If they're 50, 60, 70, they're reaching the end as an owner operator because their body is talking to them. The work wears you out. They're ripe to be acquired.
What you need is marketing. Marketing is organic marketing and acquisition, not one or the other. Acquisition doesn't mean you need tons of money. These little companies can work for what Al's friend Ellen called "mailbox money" - when the calls convert, I'll send you a check.
Marketing is a written system. You have to have a marketing plan or no matter which marketing vendor you work with, it's absolutely going to be sabotaged. A marketing plan defines where you want to go, what services you want to do today and add later, and describes your target audience.
What Al was told by his marketing guru: say something to someone or you risk saying nothing to everyone.
The reason Al starts with marketing when you're already exhausted: are you charging enough for that work? That's where budgeting comes in. Ellen Roar's books "Where Did the Money Go?" and "How Much Should I Charge?" (read in that order) take financial from sticky, messy accounting and put it in plain English.
There's a difference between tax accounting (keeps you out of jail, ensures compliance) and real world accounting (helps you run your business). Every day, every week, every month, you need to know where you are.
Listen to this carefully. The best way Al came to describe marketing is from his plumbing experiences. Imagine filling a bathtub with the right amount of calls from the right customer at the right time. If the drain is wide open because you can't answer your phones really well (that's the CSR), the goal is not to just fill the tub. It's to overflow the tub.
Once you have more demand than you can do, you get to decide what you charge, what work you do, where you will do it, and what you don't want to do. It also creates the pressure to move out of owner operator to one to three trucks, three to five trucks, and anywhere else you want to go.
How Al Turned Tommy Mello's $15 Million Money-Losing Chaos Into $230 Million Across 19 States
This is arguably Al's top success story or at least the most well-known. In 2017, Al was still doing one-to-one consulting. Tommy was just starting his podcast and Al was one of the first guests. Tommy called just before they were going to go live. Al looked down at his phone and saw his area code.
"Where do you live, Tommy?" "Phoenix." "Where do you live, Al?" "Phoenix." "Great. When we're done, we'll have lunch together."
They had lunch together, talked, and Tommy handed Al his book. "I want you to do me a favor. Read this. Be brutally honest." Al said "don't give me the book if you don't want brutal honesty because I will tell you."
Al met back up with Tommy and said "This is not a book. It's a ransom note. It's just so all over the place. You need an editor." Al gave him the same editor who helped with his book.
Then Tommy said "Great. You're hired." Al said "Hired for what?" Tommy said "I need everything that's in your book and what you've talked about. At my shop we're $15 million in sales and we're losing money every day."
Al's first job in 2017 was to get them to break even, then from break even to start making a lot of money. They started to rock and roll. Tommy came to Al one day and said "We're going to be $100 million." Al had already known Tommy and said "absolutely no doubt that we will, but this time when we build it it's not going to be chaos because you've been relying on people to magically solve the problem versus systems that people learn so they can scale."
Today Tommy's probably $230 million in like 19 states. The real test of systems is when you can expand beyond your main hub shop to other locations. In Al's case, they had a main hub shop and three satellite shops. The way they learned to make it run is you need these kinds of systems that people are trained on, not just go find the magic person who makes it work.
What actually changed in Tommy's business? It was all of the things along the seven powers except one. He was already good at sales and pretty good at marketing, but marketing was just wake up, fall out of bed, next hottest thing. If you throw enough money at it you can get away with it, but you will go broke in the process.
Al did planning, operations, staffing. They didn't do sales because Tommy liked the sales system. They did marketing, and Ellen did the financial and reward program.
The first thing that started with all Al's one-to-one clients was planning power. Planning power is all the projects and habits that every one of your people have in their heads, that you have in your head. Al watched Tommy do it like every other contractor - he's walking down the hallway and goes "hey Danny, would you take care of this?" It was not delegation, it was dumping. Al knows because that's what he used to do.
Think of it as a funnel. The top 35, 50 projects and habits you want to get done in the next three to five years go there to live. Every new idea comes down the funnel with either fixing your biggest problem or challenge or greatest chance to grow and be profitable. It gets to the top 30 (what you will do in one year).
No one can work on 30 things at one time. You take the same strainers (fix biggest problem/challenge, greatest chance growing profitable) and get down to your top five. The top five is your promise to yourself and to your company because you put it out there where everyone can see it on a whiteboard.
On the board: what is it that we're doing (those five things)? Why are we doing that? Where's the status? If they see no activity, your team knows same old thing because what you do every day is "I really need you to work on this." Next day you walk in "I know what I said yesterday, but this is really important." Pretty soon your team learns to stand still because whichever way the wind blows is where you're going next.
Then it was the org charts, the manuals, the training. Then it was how can Tommy stop trying to find willing techs with great skills (there's only so few of them, and they were telling him what they would and wouldn't do and messing up and he wouldn't fire them). Al said "you don't have your own farm team, which is taking willing apprentice with no skills to willing techs with great skills."
They took the manuals, built the right hands-on training center modeled on ones Al created, got them to be better trainers in-house, learning how to train right, training curriculum. That's the flywheel effect of being able to take apprentices to junior techs, junior techs to senior techs. As you grow and hub out, you need field supervisors, but they're not guys you appoint. They qualify, they compete, and they train.
My Main Takeaway
The three personalities that trap every entrepreneur are rescuer (cavalry coming in when guys fail), fireman (putting out fires and unconsciously setting them when there are none), and guru (hoarding knowledge instead of training people). Al's beeper, two-way radio, and cell phone were all ringing simultaneously when his mentor Dan Holland asked "you think that's normal?" Al thought "yeah and I hate it," then "look how important I am, I'm indispensable." That's the trap. Al and his brother Richie would go to highest level training for residential, commercial, and industrial work but never sent their people or gave them aids. Those people were entitled to call and wake them up. When they finally systematized that, 50% of wake-up calls went away. If you don't address rescuer-fireman-guru, you're going to hang on to everything. Your company trains you this way because every mishap gets sent to owners and managers to fix instead of training people to work on items within their sphere.
Tommy Mello was losing money every day at $15 million in sales until Al systematized everything except sales, proving scale without systems is just more gasoline on a fire. In 2017, Tommy said "I need everything in your book, we're $15 million in sales and losing money every day." Al's first job was getting them to break even, then making a lot of money. Tommy said "we're going to be $100 million" and Al said "absolutely, but this time when we build it it's not going to be chaos because you've been relying on people to magically solve problems versus systems that people learn so they can scale." Today Tommy's probably $230 million across 19 states. Al changed planning (Tommy was walking down hallways dumping tasks, not delegating), operations (org charts, manuals, training), staffing (building farm team to take willing apprentices with no skills to willing techs with great skills), marketing (wake up fall out of bed next hottest thing became written system), and financial (Ellen did real world budgeting). The real test of systems is expanding beyond your main hub shop to other locations.
Operating manuals beat SOPs because manuals are playbooks tied to org chart boxes that empower people to handle 80% of activities, while SOPs are just random post-it notes with no structure. Al spent $150,000 of his family's money creating manuals originally (a fraction of what's in the program today), but in absence of nothing they were great. They paid that off in two years because of chaos at their company - blowing opportunities, dropping the ball all along the line, running callbacks instead of new work, leaving tons of profit. They had way more calls because they were good marketers and couldn't convert them. They'd go back to old work before getting to new work. SOPs are basically checklists, and in absence of nothing checklists are always better. But if all you write is SOPs and they're all random, it's like post-it notes all over a wall with no structure. Operating manuals start with org chart, creating place of discipline. For each box, you define activities that go on 80% of time, creating playbook for accounts receivable, accounts payable, CSR, dispatcher, service tech, installer that goes over and over and empowers them to handle the 80%.
The bathtub marketing analogy explains why you need to overflow demand to control pricing and work selection, but the drain stays wide open if you can't answer phones well. Imagine filling a bathtub with right amount of calls from right customer at right time. If the drain is wide open because you can't answer phones really well (that's the CSR), the goal is not to just fill the tub but to overflow it. Once you have more demand than you can do, you get to decide what you charge, what work you do, where you will do it, and what you don't want to do. It also creates pressure to move out of owner operator to one to three trucks, three to five trucks, and anywhere else you want to go. Marketing is a written system requiring a marketing plan or no matter which vendor you work with, it's absolutely going to be sabotaged. Marketing plan defines where you want to go (goals, all objective), services you want to do today and add later, and describes target audience. As Al's marketing guru said: say something to someone or you risk saying nothing to everyone.
The planning power funnel takes 35-50 projects and habits down to top five promises displayed on a whiteboard that holds you accountable and stops the wind-blowing chaos. Al watched Tommy do what every contractor does - walk down hallway and go "hey Danny, would you take care of this." It's not delegation, it's dumping. Think of it as funnel. Top 35-50 projects and habits you want done in next three to five years go there to live. Every new idea comes down funnel with either fixing biggest problem/challenge or greatest chance to grow and be profitable. Gets to top 30 (what you'll do in one year). No one can work on 30 things at once. Take same strainers and get to top five. Top five is your promise to yourself and company because you put it where everyone can see it on whiteboard. On board: what are we doing (those five things)? Why are we doing that? Where's the status? If they see no activity, team knows same old thing because you say "I really need you to work on this" then next day "I know what I said yesterday but this is really important." Team learns to stand still because whichever way wind blows is where you're going next.
You can find Al Levi at 7powercontractor.com (the number 7). There's a lot of information - blogs you can search, videos, all free. The jump start guide is free. If you're interested in products beyond the book, click the product page to see the two main programs: Signature Operating Manual System (where you start) and Signature Staffing System (so you can take willing apprentices with no skills to willing techs with great skills). Al is on social media as Al Levy or Seven Power Contractor, primarily on Facebook, not a lot on Instagram. He's not putting pictures of dogs or kids - it's all about what he's learned along the way. His book "The Seven Power Contractor" is on Amazon in paperback, ebook, and if you like his voice, on Audible. It's designed so a contractor like Al (not a fast reader) could read it in two to four hours, but the goal is reading it over and over and absorbing more each time.
Also read Ellen Roar's books in order: "Where Did the Money Go?" and "How Much Should I charge?" Other great books: "Good to Great" and "Who Moved My Cheese" (about change, which Al keeps above his desk). Al's definitive message: you can grow big, but growing big without being systematic is an invitation to chaos - an uncontrollable fire you keep putting gasoline on each day. When's the best time to grow an oak tree? 10 years ago and today. If you don't plant it today, 10 years from now you're going to wish you had.
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Systems
Al Levi on Why Tommy Mello Was Losing Money at $15 Million | Local Marketing Secrets with Dan Leibrandt
Jun 9, 2025

I just had an incredible conversation with Al Levi, the third generation contractor turned business strategist who wrote the bestselling book, The Seven Power Contractor. He co-founded the rapidly growing ZoomDrain franchise with Ellen Rohr and created the signature operating manuals and staffing systems that thousands of trades businesses rely on every day.
After scaling his family's plumbing and HVAC firm to 70 plus employees and retiring at 48, he's spent the last two decades helping contractors around the world run their companies with less stress and a lot more success.
This conversation completely changed how I think about systems, the three personalities holding entrepreneurs back, and why you can't be a zero in any of the seven powers.
/ / / / / / / /
The Silver Spoon Covered in Fuel Oil and What It Taught About Authenticity
Al was literally born into the business. His friends told him he was born with a silver spoon, and Al said yes, except his was covered with fuel oil. By the time he and his brothers were young, they were sweeping up in the office, cleaning out toilets, or riding at night.
Al said the day he was born was the day they put a wrench in his crib. They drove trucks, did everything as helpers. Al's father strongly believed you should never ask anybody to do anything you yourself haven't done. When Al was young, he didn't like that. But he saw the wisdom pretty quickly because you have no authenticity otherwise.
Al got his engineering degree (which he never practiced), but while going to school he worked six months a year in the business. There was no spring break. When he came back home in his early 20s as the last of the brothers to join, his father said "I owe you an opportunity, not a guarantee. You're going to start here and work your way up. You're not reporting to me. You're reporting to the people that head your department and they have full reign. Good luck."
Al had great mentors at his own company that took him under their wing. He wasn't born a tech. He had to learn from really good, patient people. He also had what amounted to a drill sergeant named Tommy who was tough. But Al never forgot any lessons Tommy taught him because it was humiliating enough to do it once, you never wanted to ask twice.
This idea that anyone is a self-made man? If you're honest with yourself, no you're not. If you read a book and it influenced you, you're not self-made. There's no such thing as a born leader or all self-made entrepreneur.
The Three Personalities That Keep Every Entrepreneur Trapped (Rescuer, Fireman, Guru)
Al shared a story that completely changed my perspective. One of his great mentors, Dan Holland (an industry giant), was in Al's truck. They ran a call, got back in the truck, and this is ancient guys so hang with me - Al's beeper on his waist, his two-way radio, and his big giant cell phone were all ringing at the same time.
Dan looked over at the passenger seat, looked at Al, and said "You think that's normal?" For a second, Al thought "yeah, and I hate it." Then a second later, he thought "look how important I am. I'm indispensable."
That's when Al dug into what he calls the three personalities you have to get hold of or nothing will change.
Al liked being the rescuer. The cavalry coming in. All these guys fail, step aside, I'll show you how it gets done. Whatever position that is.
The other one was the fireman. There's a fire out there, everyone's failed, step aside, I'll get this fire out. Here's the sneaky part: if there were no fires, unconsciously Al was setting them up to create fires. Really sneaky stuff.
The last one was the guru. Al and his brother Richie would go to the highest level training because they did residential, commercial, and industrial. They had shifts with people on call from 7 to 4, 8 to 5, 10 to 7 p.m., 2 to 11 p.m., and in dead of winter 5 p.m. to 2 a.m. Those people were useless when they'd get to big things.
Al and Richie were upset at them. But when they finally stopped being upset, they realized they had the guru system where they never sent them to that training, never gave them aids, never put them through training to get things done. So those people were entitled to call and wake Al or his brother up and ask a question.
When they finally systematized that, 50% of those wake-up calls went away.
Watch out for rescuer, fireman, guru. Al talks about this in his book "The Seven Power Contractor," and it makes a world of difference. If you don't address those three things, you're going to hang on to everything.
I told Al I feel like I can find myself falling into all three sometimes. I want to be the person who rescues. I see this with all kinds of other entrepreneurs too. Al confirmed: it is every entrepreneur. Otherwise we would have never made the entrepreneurial seizure (dumb moment) and gone into business or even stepped into an existing business because dad wanted to retire.
Your company trains you that way because every time there's a mishap, who do they send it off to? Owners and managers to come fix this instead of training them to work on items that should be within their sphere.
Why Operating Manuals Beat SOPs and the $150,000 Investment That Paid Off in Two Years
When I asked Al how he came up with the Seven Power framework and why it's seven powers versus 10 or five, he said it was kind of evolution and an epiphany. What he knew was the operating manuals was really the biggest turning point. He needed who does what and what is the reporting order. That started with the org chart.
You can create what people loosely call SOPs (basically checklists). In the absence of nothing, checklists are always better. But if all you write is SOPs and they're all random, it's like post-it notes all over a wall. There's no structure to it. SOPs are not operating manuals.
Operating manuals is when you have an org chart. Now you have a place of discipline. The question is: which of these boxes is this an activity that goes on 80% of the time? You're creating a playbook so if Al brought you on board, you could be the accounts receivable person, accounts payable person, CSR, dispatcher, service tech, installer. There's a playbook that goes over and over and over which empowers you to handle the 80%.
Al spent $150,000 of his family's money creating the manuals originally. They were a fraction of what's in the program today, but in the absence of nothing, they were great. They paid that off in two years because of the chaos at their company. They were blowing opportunities, dropping the ball all along the line, running callbacks all the time instead of being able to go to new work, and leaving a ton of profit.
They had way more calls because they were good marketers and they couldn't convert them. They would go back to old work before they could get to new work. That was a big problem.
As Al shared with me before the show, he was really great at sales and marketing and his team was really great at blowing it up. That's how he became the operations guy, the staffing guy, the planning guy. He had to systematize all of it.
The Bathtub Analogy That Explains Why Marketing Without Systems Is Pointless
For trades companies just starting out, Al explained there are other owner operators in the same boat. If they're 50, 60, 70, they're reaching the end as an owner operator because their body is talking to them. The work wears you out. They're ripe to be acquired.
What you need is marketing. Marketing is organic marketing and acquisition, not one or the other. Acquisition doesn't mean you need tons of money. These little companies can work for what Al's friend Ellen called "mailbox money" - when the calls convert, I'll send you a check.
Marketing is a written system. You have to have a marketing plan or no matter which marketing vendor you work with, it's absolutely going to be sabotaged. A marketing plan defines where you want to go, what services you want to do today and add later, and describes your target audience.
What Al was told by his marketing guru: say something to someone or you risk saying nothing to everyone.
The reason Al starts with marketing when you're already exhausted: are you charging enough for that work? That's where budgeting comes in. Ellen Roar's books "Where Did the Money Go?" and "How Much Should I Charge?" (read in that order) take financial from sticky, messy accounting and put it in plain English.
There's a difference between tax accounting (keeps you out of jail, ensures compliance) and real world accounting (helps you run your business). Every day, every week, every month, you need to know where you are.
Listen to this carefully. The best way Al came to describe marketing is from his plumbing experiences. Imagine filling a bathtub with the right amount of calls from the right customer at the right time. If the drain is wide open because you can't answer your phones really well (that's the CSR), the goal is not to just fill the tub. It's to overflow the tub.
Once you have more demand than you can do, you get to decide what you charge, what work you do, where you will do it, and what you don't want to do. It also creates the pressure to move out of owner operator to one to three trucks, three to five trucks, and anywhere else you want to go.
How Al Turned Tommy Mello's $15 Million Money-Losing Chaos Into $230 Million Across 19 States
This is arguably Al's top success story or at least the most well-known. In 2017, Al was still doing one-to-one consulting. Tommy was just starting his podcast and Al was one of the first guests. Tommy called just before they were going to go live. Al looked down at his phone and saw his area code.
"Where do you live, Tommy?" "Phoenix." "Where do you live, Al?" "Phoenix." "Great. When we're done, we'll have lunch together."
They had lunch together, talked, and Tommy handed Al his book. "I want you to do me a favor. Read this. Be brutally honest." Al said "don't give me the book if you don't want brutal honesty because I will tell you."
Al met back up with Tommy and said "This is not a book. It's a ransom note. It's just so all over the place. You need an editor." Al gave him the same editor who helped with his book.
Then Tommy said "Great. You're hired." Al said "Hired for what?" Tommy said "I need everything that's in your book and what you've talked about. At my shop we're $15 million in sales and we're losing money every day."
Al's first job in 2017 was to get them to break even, then from break even to start making a lot of money. They started to rock and roll. Tommy came to Al one day and said "We're going to be $100 million." Al had already known Tommy and said "absolutely no doubt that we will, but this time when we build it it's not going to be chaos because you've been relying on people to magically solve the problem versus systems that people learn so they can scale."
Today Tommy's probably $230 million in like 19 states. The real test of systems is when you can expand beyond your main hub shop to other locations. In Al's case, they had a main hub shop and three satellite shops. The way they learned to make it run is you need these kinds of systems that people are trained on, not just go find the magic person who makes it work.
What actually changed in Tommy's business? It was all of the things along the seven powers except one. He was already good at sales and pretty good at marketing, but marketing was just wake up, fall out of bed, next hottest thing. If you throw enough money at it you can get away with it, but you will go broke in the process.
Al did planning, operations, staffing. They didn't do sales because Tommy liked the sales system. They did marketing, and Ellen did the financial and reward program.
The first thing that started with all Al's one-to-one clients was planning power. Planning power is all the projects and habits that every one of your people have in their heads, that you have in your head. Al watched Tommy do it like every other contractor - he's walking down the hallway and goes "hey Danny, would you take care of this?" It was not delegation, it was dumping. Al knows because that's what he used to do.
Think of it as a funnel. The top 35, 50 projects and habits you want to get done in the next three to five years go there to live. Every new idea comes down the funnel with either fixing your biggest problem or challenge or greatest chance to grow and be profitable. It gets to the top 30 (what you will do in one year).
No one can work on 30 things at one time. You take the same strainers (fix biggest problem/challenge, greatest chance growing profitable) and get down to your top five. The top five is your promise to yourself and to your company because you put it out there where everyone can see it on a whiteboard.
On the board: what is it that we're doing (those five things)? Why are we doing that? Where's the status? If they see no activity, your team knows same old thing because what you do every day is "I really need you to work on this." Next day you walk in "I know what I said yesterday, but this is really important." Pretty soon your team learns to stand still because whichever way the wind blows is where you're going next.
Then it was the org charts, the manuals, the training. Then it was how can Tommy stop trying to find willing techs with great skills (there's only so few of them, and they were telling him what they would and wouldn't do and messing up and he wouldn't fire them). Al said "you don't have your own farm team, which is taking willing apprentice with no skills to willing techs with great skills."
They took the manuals, built the right hands-on training center modeled on ones Al created, got them to be better trainers in-house, learning how to train right, training curriculum. That's the flywheel effect of being able to take apprentices to junior techs, junior techs to senior techs. As you grow and hub out, you need field supervisors, but they're not guys you appoint. They qualify, they compete, and they train.
My Main Takeaway
The three personalities that trap every entrepreneur are rescuer (cavalry coming in when guys fail), fireman (putting out fires and unconsciously setting them when there are none), and guru (hoarding knowledge instead of training people). Al's beeper, two-way radio, and cell phone were all ringing simultaneously when his mentor Dan Holland asked "you think that's normal?" Al thought "yeah and I hate it," then "look how important I am, I'm indispensable." That's the trap. Al and his brother Richie would go to highest level training for residential, commercial, and industrial work but never sent their people or gave them aids. Those people were entitled to call and wake them up. When they finally systematized that, 50% of wake-up calls went away. If you don't address rescuer-fireman-guru, you're going to hang on to everything. Your company trains you this way because every mishap gets sent to owners and managers to fix instead of training people to work on items within their sphere.
Tommy Mello was losing money every day at $15 million in sales until Al systematized everything except sales, proving scale without systems is just more gasoline on a fire. In 2017, Tommy said "I need everything in your book, we're $15 million in sales and losing money every day." Al's first job was getting them to break even, then making a lot of money. Tommy said "we're going to be $100 million" and Al said "absolutely, but this time when we build it it's not going to be chaos because you've been relying on people to magically solve problems versus systems that people learn so they can scale." Today Tommy's probably $230 million across 19 states. Al changed planning (Tommy was walking down hallways dumping tasks, not delegating), operations (org charts, manuals, training), staffing (building farm team to take willing apprentices with no skills to willing techs with great skills), marketing (wake up fall out of bed next hottest thing became written system), and financial (Ellen did real world budgeting). The real test of systems is expanding beyond your main hub shop to other locations.
Operating manuals beat SOPs because manuals are playbooks tied to org chart boxes that empower people to handle 80% of activities, while SOPs are just random post-it notes with no structure. Al spent $150,000 of his family's money creating manuals originally (a fraction of what's in the program today), but in absence of nothing they were great. They paid that off in two years because of chaos at their company - blowing opportunities, dropping the ball all along the line, running callbacks instead of new work, leaving tons of profit. They had way more calls because they were good marketers and couldn't convert them. They'd go back to old work before getting to new work. SOPs are basically checklists, and in absence of nothing checklists are always better. But if all you write is SOPs and they're all random, it's like post-it notes all over a wall with no structure. Operating manuals start with org chart, creating place of discipline. For each box, you define activities that go on 80% of time, creating playbook for accounts receivable, accounts payable, CSR, dispatcher, service tech, installer that goes over and over and empowers them to handle the 80%.
The bathtub marketing analogy explains why you need to overflow demand to control pricing and work selection, but the drain stays wide open if you can't answer phones well. Imagine filling a bathtub with right amount of calls from right customer at right time. If the drain is wide open because you can't answer phones really well (that's the CSR), the goal is not to just fill the tub but to overflow it. Once you have more demand than you can do, you get to decide what you charge, what work you do, where you will do it, and what you don't want to do. It also creates pressure to move out of owner operator to one to three trucks, three to five trucks, and anywhere else you want to go. Marketing is a written system requiring a marketing plan or no matter which vendor you work with, it's absolutely going to be sabotaged. Marketing plan defines where you want to go (goals, all objective), services you want to do today and add later, and describes target audience. As Al's marketing guru said: say something to someone or you risk saying nothing to everyone.
The planning power funnel takes 35-50 projects and habits down to top five promises displayed on a whiteboard that holds you accountable and stops the wind-blowing chaos. Al watched Tommy do what every contractor does - walk down hallway and go "hey Danny, would you take care of this." It's not delegation, it's dumping. Think of it as funnel. Top 35-50 projects and habits you want done in next three to five years go there to live. Every new idea comes down funnel with either fixing biggest problem/challenge or greatest chance to grow and be profitable. Gets to top 30 (what you'll do in one year). No one can work on 30 things at once. Take same strainers and get to top five. Top five is your promise to yourself and company because you put it where everyone can see it on whiteboard. On board: what are we doing (those five things)? Why are we doing that? Where's the status? If they see no activity, team knows same old thing because you say "I really need you to work on this" then next day "I know what I said yesterday but this is really important." Team learns to stand still because whichever way wind blows is where you're going next.
You can find Al Levi at 7powercontractor.com (the number 7). There's a lot of information - blogs you can search, videos, all free. The jump start guide is free. If you're interested in products beyond the book, click the product page to see the two main programs: Signature Operating Manual System (where you start) and Signature Staffing System (so you can take willing apprentices with no skills to willing techs with great skills). Al is on social media as Al Levy or Seven Power Contractor, primarily on Facebook, not a lot on Instagram. He's not putting pictures of dogs or kids - it's all about what he's learned along the way. His book "The Seven Power Contractor" is on Amazon in paperback, ebook, and if you like his voice, on Audible. It's designed so a contractor like Al (not a fast reader) could read it in two to four hours, but the goal is reading it over and over and absorbing more each time.
Also read Ellen Roar's books in order: "Where Did the Money Go?" and "How Much Should I charge?" Other great books: "Good to Great" and "Who Moved My Cheese" (about change, which Al keeps above his desk). Al's definitive message: you can grow big, but growing big without being systematic is an invitation to chaos - an uncontrollable fire you keep putting gasoline on each day. When's the best time to grow an oak tree? 10 years ago and today. If you don't plant it today, 10 years from now you're going to wish you had.
Latest
More Blogs By Danny Leibrandt
Get the latest insights on business, digital marketing, and entrepreneurship from Danny Leibrandt.
Connect to Content
Add layers or components to infinitely loop on your page.
